Recruitment Agencies – Are they a Rip-off?

If you are using a recruitment agency for permanent placements, you are being ripped off! Well, the majority are ripping you off. There are some who acknowledge this and typically they are your smaller boutique who are offering a far more personalised service.
Cue – Agency hysteria.
Having worked both sides of the fence, I feel I can make comment. And before the abuse commences, I’ll admit it. I was hopeless at BD and an average agency recruiter. Kudos to those toughing it out in agency land. Now back to hysteria. Where does one start?
[bctt tweet=”Most recruitment agencies are not providing near good enough services says @stanrolfe” username=”ATCevent”]
The Terms
I’ve probably read enough agency terms and conditions to fill a bible. In fact, I’d love to find the original manuscript and trace its evolution to today. Ever noticed how much they all read and look like one another? Swap some branding and clause numbers and I’m pretty sure it’s the same document being circulated. Some are two pages, some many more.
The Agency will claim the terms are to reduce risk, protect them, the candidate, and you the client from the Agency Boogeyman. So what is the main theme throughout the document? A severe lack of trust:

  • We don’t trust you the client – How many clauses are there around clients poaching, referring, not paying, re-hiring etc.? Wouldn’t you want to be partnering with your client, conducting your due diligence so you know they respect what you do and won’t screw you?
  • We don’t trust our recruiters – Love this clause. We’ll present people to you, but we take no responsibility for checking credentials or right to work. We’ll slug you a great big fee for an introduction but we won’t ensure who we are representing is legit. Nor are we confident they will stick around so we’ll only offer you a three or six month replacement guarantee.
  • We don’t trust the candidate – Some agencies have candidates sign sole representation documents. We all know you are fishing in the same pool, well here in Australia anyways. Once hired, they will leave. Hopefully not in the guarantee period.
  • We don’t trust god – God is a crap actor and if all else fails we’ll charge you, and take no responsibility for anything.

So tell me, is this the type of partnership you want? I mean, they all want to ‘partner’ with you don’t they? Next time you get some terms, have a read through.
Yes, we all know that recruitment agencies have been screwed and you need to protect your business. But I would assume that you would likely not conduct business with that company, person again. So why bring your baggage into this new relationship?
Wouldn’t it be great to see a one pager which read something like this:
“Trust us, we’ve got your back”
Ok, ok the reality of it all says this is not possible. But surely terms of business which read more trusting would be a good start?
Now, onto The Fee
The vast majority slug you a percentage of total remuneration package. How can recruitment agencies justify fees of 30, 25, 20, 18, 15 of total salary package? More screwing here.
We should be negotiating on base salary only. Don’t agree on anything else. Let’s force the change.
Why? Well superannuation is government mandated. We as the employer must pay this. We also have to pay other costs such as payroll tax, workers compensation and insurance. All government mandated. Why are we not charged for this if you apply the same thinking? We are paying you for someone’s skills and experience, we are certainly not paying you for government mandated employment costs. We know, you pay super too but you aren’t paying a lump sum up front in addition to someone’s super are you? Unless you are being screwed by a rec to rec.
Benefits. The Car. If I am paying you for this perk, are you assessing the person’s experience and capability of driving a vehicle? Are you even checking to see if the person holds a valid driver’s licence? I doubt it. Bonuses, just how is this tracked and managed anyways? A sucker clause if I have ever seen one.
[bctt tweet=”Recruitment agencies are charging exorbitant fees for simply pushing you ads & resumes ” username=”ATCevent”]
Then there is the fee. Based on my experience here in Australia the fees would range between 15 – 20 percent of total package. It doesn’t matter whether you are recruiting graduates or senior management, the fee remains consistent. On $100K base that’s $15K minimum. Probably someone they have found through a SEEK ad. We all know what happens when they get a job, up goes a SEEK ad. I am generalising here. There are awesome agencies and recruiters who maintain a great network of candidates, who actually really work for the candidates but the majority are just pushers. Pushers of advertisements, pushers of resumes. Heck, their favourite song is probably Ice-T’s I’m Your Pusher from the Power Album. Cracking album and dope song, aight! In smaller markets like Perth, they are all fishing from the same pool, especially in the Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics (STEM) sector.
$15K. That’s about one fifth your recruiter’s salary! Who, could have posted that ad on SEEK for the same result (but that’s a discussion for another blog). Ever wonder why there are so many recruitment agencies? Because there is money to be made, good money.
Don’t even get me started on the three-month replacement guarantee.
So what am I saying here? Simply to stop being ripped off, and start negotiating hard ball with your ‘partners’. If they want to be your ‘trusted advisor’ and you’re not the type of company to screw your suppliers, then start negotiating flat fees, extended guarantee periods, base salary only. Long term partnerships are built on trust.
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51 Responses to “Recruitment Agencies – Are they a Rip-off?”

  1. Trevor Vas

    Stan Rolfe, I used to be a recruitment agent and I am proud of what I accomplished and some of the clients I had are clients and friends of mine now.
    I am not seeing the mercenary tactics that you write so well about 🙂 but I am sure they exist. Whenever you generalise though you create atrocities, indeed many atrocities have occurred because people believed these.
    I think there are many reputable recruitment agents out there who I would be proud to recommend. Many of these agents care more about the results than their clients. Have a heart Stan Rolfe you used to be an agent be proud of your past.

    Reply
  2. Trevor Vas

    Stan Rolfe, I used to be a recruitment agent and I am proud of what I accomplished and some of the clients I had are clients and friends of mine now.
    I am not seeing the mercenary tactics that you write so well about 🙂 but I am sure they exist. Whenever you generalise though you create atrocities, indeed many atrocities have occurred because people believed these.
    I think there are many reputable recruitment agents out there who I would be proud to recommend. Many of these agents care more about the results than their clients. Have a heart Stan Rolfe you used to be an agent be proud of your past.

    Reply
  3. On separate occasions recently I rented a car and a house. I read both “contracts” that I had to sign carefully. Both were full of “do not trust” clauses. The rental car was particularly frightening in wording.

    Reply
  4. On separate occasions recently I rented a car and a house. I read both “contracts” that I had to sign carefully. Both were full of “do not trust” clauses. The rental car was particularly frightening in wording.

    Reply
  5. Shane

    Stan, you know that I am generally in furious agreement with you on most things you write about and in this instance, whilst I agree with most of your points above, I also have to point out that us internal recruiters also play a big part in not creating the partnership model that you have referred to above.
    In my experience, most internal recruiters are reluctant to truly partner with our agency brothers and sisters. Agencies are seen as competition and a lot of internal recruiters believe (incorrectly in my view) that by using an agency they have “failed” at their role. I am a big believer that the intelligent, planned and integrated use of recruitment agencies as partners can add value to your overall recruitment function. That said, you need to do your due diligence and choose your partners carefully, but once you have, you need to give them the tools and freedom to be able to deliver the results that we expect of them. Generally we tend to utilize agencies in an ad hoc manner with no real plan and then ask them to do the job with one hand tied behind their back (think lack of access to hiring managers).
    I am not saying that there are not rogue operators out there that genuinely do rip off their clients by delivering a poor service at inflated rates, but partnerships done right can add a powerful tool to our recruitment arsenal.

    Reply
  6. Shane

    Stan, you know that I am generally in furious agreement with you on most things you write about and in this instance, whilst I agree with most of your points above, I also have to point out that us internal recruiters also play a big part in not creating the partnership model that you have referred to above.
    In my experience, most internal recruiters are reluctant to truly partner with our agency brothers and sisters. Agencies are seen as competition and a lot of internal recruiters believe (incorrectly in my view) that by using an agency they have “failed” at their role. I am a big believer that the intelligent, planned and integrated use of recruitment agencies as partners can add value to your overall recruitment function. That said, you need to do your due diligence and choose your partners carefully, but once you have, you need to give them the tools and freedom to be able to deliver the results that we expect of them. Generally we tend to utilize agencies in an ad hoc manner with no real plan and then ask them to do the job with one hand tied behind their back (think lack of access to hiring managers).
    I am not saying that there are not rogue operators out there that genuinely do rip off their clients by delivering a poor service at inflated rates, but partnerships done right can add a powerful tool to our recruitment arsenal.

    Reply
  7. Stan Rolfe

    Thanks for your comments.
    The blog post is about the terms and conditions put forward. Not specific organisations or individuals.
    Totally agree with your comments Shane. In fact that is the approach I take with our existing suppliers. Exclusivity, referrals, now even at a point where they will be participating in our candidate experience awards submission so we can benchmark our gaps and work to improve them together.
    Some comments on LinkedIn talk about terms being written by lawyers not recruiters whilst correct is crap. You can’t tell me business owners dont have influence on what are the final terms. Understand the need to mitigate risk, but it can be done in a different more positive and progressive manner.

    Reply
  8. Stan Rolfe

    Thanks for your comments.
    The blog post is about the terms and conditions put forward. Not specific organisations or individuals.
    Totally agree with your comments Shane. In fact that is the approach I take with our existing suppliers. Exclusivity, referrals, now even at a point where they will be participating in our candidate experience awards submission so we can benchmark our gaps and work to improve them together.
    Some comments on LinkedIn talk about terms being written by lawyers not recruiters whilst correct is crap. You can’t tell me business owners dont have influence on what are the final terms. Understand the need to mitigate risk, but it can be done in a different more positive and progressive manner.

    Reply
  9. Aidan

    As I once said to a client who had some of the same issues with the T & C’s. “Write your own terms that you seem fair and reasonable and lets talk”. Safe to say they wanted to be charged next to nothing, be able to hire anyone I represented (into other roles they hadn’t released) without a fee and a guarantee of minimum 12 months. The T and C should be used as a starting point for discussion not a take it or leave it approach. (obviously in the case above I politely said no thanks) Stan I can send you my terms to discuss 🙂

    Reply
  10. Aidan

    As I once said to a client who had some of the same issues with the T & C’s. “Write your own terms that you seem fair and reasonable and lets talk”. Safe to say they wanted to be charged next to nothing, be able to hire anyone I represented (into other roles they hadn’t released) without a fee and a guarantee of minimum 12 months. The T and C should be used as a starting point for discussion not a take it or leave it approach. (obviously in the case above I politely said no thanks) Stan I can send you my terms to discuss 🙂

    Reply
  11. Stan,
    Nice article. I agree with everything you have written but I am bias because I have a new start up trying to tackle this exact issue in Australia (VouchFor.com.au) however agencies do offer a service and should get paid for it. Agencies also have to pay for rent and support staff so the margin is sometimes fair enough. I do believe though that employers should be paying less. I also believe referral recruiting to be way more superior than the job advert and resume collecting model. Here’s to improving the recruitment space in Australia!!

    Reply
  12. Stan,
    Nice article. I agree with everything you have written but I am bias because I have a new start up trying to tackle this exact issue in Australia (VouchFor.com.au) however agencies do offer a service and should get paid for it. Agencies also have to pay for rent and support staff so the margin is sometimes fair enough. I do believe though that employers should be paying less. I also believe referral recruiting to be way more superior than the job advert and resume collecting model. Here’s to improving the recruitment space in Australia!!

    Reply
  13. I did have quite a laugh when I read this. It’s generally pretty responsible for any business to have T&C’s so there is clarity and protection. And the protection is for that minority of clients that do try and get something for nothing (yes, they exist – are you one?). Just like how other organisations have T&C’s for their protection (as things can go wrong), whether it be for recruitment, an employment contract, or another business venture. In any event, if you don’t want to pay a fee and do not agree with the T&C’s then either 1) do it yourself or 2)enter into a sensible discussion to change some of them. Absolutely no drama and it’s your choice.
    I agree that the process of recruitment is pretty easy and anyone can position themselves as an expert recruiter or talent sourcing expert even if they weren’t that good in the external market. There are 1000s of experts on Linkedin. The art and the value comes from those in the industry that can engage, business develop, relationship build, network, manage the aspirations of candidates & clients and appoint the best person in the market not just the person sitting on one of many very public databases (so it’s more than just a process). So when you can’t fill one of the many roles that you are working on then it’s probably time to call an external expert and pay the 15% or 25% (if you don’t like a % ask for a fixed). I am sure when you add up the time you spent working on the role, the length of time it was vacant, and the risk of placing someone that’s not the right fit (and leaves) then the fee you will pay will be pretty small in comparison.
    I offer a 12 month guarantee by the way as I am happy to walk the talk and in 16 years I have only had 3 candidates fall out and each time I have honoured the guarantee, replaced the original hire, and have a strong client relationship. I would be interested to know what the cost of your internal service would be if you added on replacing the candidate that you appointed. 15 or 25% is looking like a pretty good deal…….

    Reply
  14. I did have quite a laugh when I read this. It’s generally pretty responsible for any business to have T&C’s so there is clarity and protection. And the protection is for that minority of clients that do try and get something for nothing (yes, they exist – are you one?). Just like how other organisations have T&C’s for their protection (as things can go wrong), whether it be for recruitment, an employment contract, or another business venture. In any event, if you don’t want to pay a fee and do not agree with the T&C’s then either 1) do it yourself or 2)enter into a sensible discussion to change some of them. Absolutely no drama and it’s your choice.
    I agree that the process of recruitment is pretty easy and anyone can position themselves as an expert recruiter or talent sourcing expert even if they weren’t that good in the external market. There are 1000s of experts on Linkedin. The art and the value comes from those in the industry that can engage, business develop, relationship build, network, manage the aspirations of candidates & clients and appoint the best person in the market not just the person sitting on one of many very public databases (so it’s more than just a process). So when you can’t fill one of the many roles that you are working on then it’s probably time to call an external expert and pay the 15% or 25% (if you don’t like a % ask for a fixed). I am sure when you add up the time you spent working on the role, the length of time it was vacant, and the risk of placing someone that’s not the right fit (and leaves) then the fee you will pay will be pretty small in comparison.
    I offer a 12 month guarantee by the way as I am happy to walk the talk and in 16 years I have only had 3 candidates fall out and each time I have honoured the guarantee, replaced the original hire, and have a strong client relationship. I would be interested to know what the cost of your internal service would be if you added on replacing the candidate that you appointed. 15 or 25% is looking like a pretty good deal…….

    Reply
  15. To be fair, no matter what industry you work in, terms of business will be involved. Long gone are the days when business is done purely on gentleman agreements alone! Is that an actual joke?
    Recruitment costs are completely justified. 80% of the work we do is completely for free as the majority of our fees are paid on a contingency basis. That’s because internal recruiters like you Stan, go to multiple agencies every time a role opens up to find the best candidate, if you go to four agencies for one role, three agencies you’re contacting, you’re essentially asking them to work for you for free. They are doing the same amount of work sourcing candidates as the one agency the will eventually get paid for placing the role. If you want to engage with one agency alone on a retained basis where there’s no competition and the agency is guaranteed to be paid for their work, believe me, you’d be able to get a significantly cheaper rate. The problem is hardly any employers do this, because they don’t believe they’ll get the ‘best’ candidate if they do.
    Also if you don’t agree with costs and think you’re getting ripped off, then put up a seek ad and recruit for the role yourself if all the candidates agencies represent come from Seek anyway….problem solved. You’ll never have to pay a fee again Stan! But in reality, you use agencies because you can’t do this, and because agencies do have vast networks of candidates they can introduce you to, which you don’t have access to. You’re also not paying a fee for the services provided from purely giving an agency a job, to the point where they fill the role. At least half the time recruitment agents spend in their working week, is speaking with active and passive candidates, regardless of whether there is a job for them at that point. You’re paying a fee to have access to the networks a lot of agents/agencies have taken years to build.
    To be honest, your article just sounds like to ramblings of a bitter failed recruiter….

    Reply
    • Ian, whilst you raise some good points, your throw away, personal attack at the end actually negates a lot of what you have said above. You obviously do not know Stan – I do, and I can assure you that he was a very successful external and internal recruiter before he moved into a management and leadership position. I think you will also find that he does not take a scatter gun approach to releasing roles with agencies and actually works very closely with his contracted agencies. By all means, feel feel free to critique and counter-argue (I know for a fact Stan would love that), but know who you are speaking to before resorting to personal attacks.

      Reply
  16. To be fair, no matter what industry you work in, terms of business will be involved. Long gone are the days when business is done purely on gentleman agreements alone! Is that an actual joke?
    Recruitment costs are completely justified. 80% of the work we do is completely for free as the majority of our fees are paid on a contingency basis. That’s because internal recruiters like you Stan, go to multiple agencies every time a role opens up to find the best candidate, if you go to four agencies for one role, three agencies you’re contacting, you’re essentially asking them to work for you for free. They are doing the same amount of work sourcing candidates as the one agency the will eventually get paid for placing the role. If you want to engage with one agency alone on a retained basis where there’s no competition and the agency is guaranteed to be paid for their work, believe me, you’d be able to get a significantly cheaper rate. The problem is hardly any employers do this, because they don’t believe they’ll get the ‘best’ candidate if they do.
    Also if you don’t agree with costs and think you’re getting ripped off, then put up a seek ad and recruit for the role yourself if all the candidates agencies represent come from Seek anyway….problem solved. You’ll never have to pay a fee again Stan! But in reality, you use agencies because you can’t do this, and because agencies do have vast networks of candidates they can introduce you to, which you don’t have access to. You’re also not paying a fee for the services provided from purely giving an agency a job, to the point where they fill the role. At least half the time recruitment agents spend in their working week, is speaking with active and passive candidates, regardless of whether there is a job for them at that point. You’re paying a fee to have access to the networks a lot of agents/agencies have taken years to build.
    To be honest, your article just sounds like to ramblings of a bitter failed recruiter….

    Reply
    • Ian, whilst you raise some good points, your throw away, personal attack at the end actually negates a lot of what you have said above. You obviously do not know Stan – I do, and I can assure you that he was a very successful external and internal recruiter before he moved into a management and leadership position. I think you will also find that he does not take a scatter gun approach to releasing roles with agencies and actually works very closely with his contracted agencies. By all means, feel feel free to critique and counter-argue (I know for a fact Stan would love that), but know who you are speaking to before resorting to personal attacks.

      Reply
  17. How a former agency recruiter can write this crap and genuinely believe this to be true is absolutely mind-boggling…..
    Your breakdown of the agency terms in your own mind is quite frankly laughable….’We don’t trust the client, our recruiters, our candidates or god”. God? Are you for real mate?
    Ian makes some excellent points above. The majority of the work agents do on a daily basis does not get remunerated. The recruitment industry is not set up whereby you employ them an hourly basis for their time like you might do an accountant or a lawyer. The industry is also not set up like real estate for example, where you engage with one agent to sell your home and he takes a %. Can you imagine if it was, where you’re looking to sell your home and you go to 4 real estate agencies and put up an ad yourself on realestate.com.au, only the fastest agent to sell your home get’s paid…that’s essentially how the recruitment is set up, yet there’s the constant impression the fees being charged are astronomical and agents are swimming in cash, where in reality a lot of agents work 10 hours a day and barely make enough placements to keep their head above water. Why do you think the turnover of recruiters is high in the industry? Because agents get bored of making all that cash and want to go and do something else. No, the reality is, they don’t bill enough money to justify their positions and are either forced out, or resign due to the stress of it all.
    How you’re a former recruiter and you don’t know this, literally doesn’t make sense to me.

    Reply
  18. How a former agency recruiter can write this crap and genuinely believe this to be true is absolutely mind-boggling…..
    Your breakdown of the agency terms in your own mind is quite frankly laughable….’We don’t trust the client, our recruiters, our candidates or god”. God? Are you for real mate?
    Ian makes some excellent points above. The majority of the work agents do on a daily basis does not get remunerated. The recruitment industry is not set up whereby you employ them an hourly basis for their time like you might do an accountant or a lawyer. The industry is also not set up like real estate for example, where you engage with one agent to sell your home and he takes a %. Can you imagine if it was, where you’re looking to sell your home and you go to 4 real estate agencies and put up an ad yourself on realestate.com.au, only the fastest agent to sell your home get’s paid…that’s essentially how the recruitment is set up, yet there’s the constant impression the fees being charged are astronomical and agents are swimming in cash, where in reality a lot of agents work 10 hours a day and barely make enough placements to keep their head above water. Why do you think the turnover of recruiters is high in the industry? Because agents get bored of making all that cash and want to go and do something else. No, the reality is, they don’t bill enough money to justify their positions and are either forced out, or resign due to the stress of it all.
    How you’re a former recruiter and you don’t know this, literally doesn’t make sense to me.

    Reply
  19. A thought provoking article! Having recently moved into a role that is partially agency recruiting (and some internal recruiting) – I must say that it has really opened my eyes to many confronting, disturbing issues that have made me determined to maintain the and further develop the ethics and sense of accountability I acquired whilst working in house.
    I think it’s important to point out that not all agency recruiters are cash driven or incentivised with placement bonuses.
    I very much agree with you Stan, if I was a client, I would be extremely disappointed to see an agency simply flick an advert up on a job site and send me a mediocre short list of candidates…. and I see no harm with organisations playing hard ball with agencies, I think it’s warranted!
    I do believe however, the requirement for specialist agencies (and outsourced recruitment processes) will be on the rise as organisations keep cutting costs, and the size of their recruiting teams. Speaking from my own personal experience, I can’t see how some of these teams will have the time to conduct searches for hard to fill positions, or talent pool effectively.
    Perhaps organisations would have a more positive opinion of agencies if they reduced the number of agencies on their PSAs, and provided easy access to key decision makers to facilitate better feedback and communication?

    Reply
  20. A thought provoking article! Having recently moved into a role that is partially agency recruiting (and some internal recruiting) – I must say that it has really opened my eyes to many confronting, disturbing issues that have made me determined to maintain the and further develop the ethics and sense of accountability I acquired whilst working in house.
    I think it’s important to point out that not all agency recruiters are cash driven or incentivised with placement bonuses.
    I very much agree with you Stan, if I was a client, I would be extremely disappointed to see an agency simply flick an advert up on a job site and send me a mediocre short list of candidates…. and I see no harm with organisations playing hard ball with agencies, I think it’s warranted!
    I do believe however, the requirement for specialist agencies (and outsourced recruitment processes) will be on the rise as organisations keep cutting costs, and the size of their recruiting teams. Speaking from my own personal experience, I can’t see how some of these teams will have the time to conduct searches for hard to fill positions, or talent pool effectively.
    Perhaps organisations would have a more positive opinion of agencies if they reduced the number of agencies on their PSAs, and provided easy access to key decision makers to facilitate better feedback and communication?

    Reply
  21. Aussieblogger

    Stan, I’m a bit confused. You talk about partnerships and you even say that “long term partnerships are built on trust” but then you talk of “playing hardball” on negotiating terms and say you do not value the terms of business that agencies use…Your entire post reads as someone who sees themselves as ‘superior’ to agency recruiters.
    Partnership is a two way street and it seems to me that you do not view agencies as partner even though you are obviously relying on them to source candidates you cannot source on your own ( I see no other reason why you would have read so many different agency terms). Having worked on both sides of the fence myself, I honestly feel that the majority of issues in the client / agency dynamic are caused by internal recruiter having this ‘high and mighty’ attitude and failing to recognise the value that partnering with agencies add to their recruitment process.
    Sadly as Ian points out, the majority of in house recruiters are bitter , failed agency recruiters who are not serious about partnering with agencies.

    Reply
  22. Aussieblogger

    Stan, I’m a bit confused. You talk about partnerships and you even say that “long term partnerships are built on trust” but then you talk of “playing hardball” on negotiating terms and say you do not value the terms of business that agencies use…Your entire post reads as someone who sees themselves as ‘superior’ to agency recruiters.
    Partnership is a two way street and it seems to me that you do not view agencies as partner even though you are obviously relying on them to source candidates you cannot source on your own ( I see no other reason why you would have read so many different agency terms). Having worked on both sides of the fence myself, I honestly feel that the majority of issues in the client / agency dynamic are caused by internal recruiter having this ‘high and mighty’ attitude and failing to recognise the value that partnering with agencies add to their recruitment process.
    Sadly as Ian points out, the majority of in house recruiters are bitter , failed agency recruiters who are not serious about partnering with agencies.

    Reply
  23. John Robertson

    Having worked on both sides extensively. I actually worked on some vacancies for Stan at point in time! The cost of running a successful agency is substantial (with cash flow being very difficult). Most agencies run a temp function that requires money lending facilities which have interest rates charged before bills are paid (bill payment on fees is a whole discussion for another time). The reality is Permanent fees balance this cash flow out through lower costs incurred by the agencies.
    This inevitably leads to exorbitant charges on some agencies behalf (particularly in the case of some large agencies with large cost bases , including lawyers for the T&C’s!!).
    Like all things that are based on a single transaction, value can be hard to determine. How does someone like Stan or an internal manager/recruiter see the value??? Ian’s point about unseen work by agencies (good ones) is a very fair point.
    Two things are critical between internal recruiters and agency recruiter – communication & commitment. It is hard (as I have found myself) to balance the requests of internal managers to agencies as inherently internal and external recruiter compete directly in every activity.
    The priorities of both client and agency can be fulfilled through these two critical factors. Therein lies the true value of the placement and to be honest I am not sure I ever quite achieved it. However without these two things you will find another blog or discussion identical to this in 10 years’ time.

    Reply
  24. John Robertson

    Having worked on both sides extensively. I actually worked on some vacancies for Stan at point in time! The cost of running a successful agency is substantial (with cash flow being very difficult). Most agencies run a temp function that requires money lending facilities which have interest rates charged before bills are paid (bill payment on fees is a whole discussion for another time). The reality is Permanent fees balance this cash flow out through lower costs incurred by the agencies.
    This inevitably leads to exorbitant charges on some agencies behalf (particularly in the case of some large agencies with large cost bases , including lawyers for the T&C’s!!).
    Like all things that are based on a single transaction, value can be hard to determine. How does someone like Stan or an internal manager/recruiter see the value??? Ian’s point about unseen work by agencies (good ones) is a very fair point.
    Two things are critical between internal recruiters and agency recruiter – communication & commitment. It is hard (as I have found myself) to balance the requests of internal managers to agencies as inherently internal and external recruiter compete directly in every activity.
    The priorities of both client and agency can be fulfilled through these two critical factors. Therein lies the true value of the placement and to be honest I am not sure I ever quite achieved it. However without these two things you will find another blog or discussion identical to this in 10 years’ time.

    Reply
  25. Absolute load of garbage. In any terms and conditions, anywhere in the world, for a product or service being provided it will be filled with ‘trust issue’ clauses. Unfortunately this is the world we live in, where everyone wants to not only save a penny or two but screw others to add a bit to their own wallets and bank balances. I work in recruitment and believe me people do recruit behind our backs after a candidate has attended interview, people do try and delay/avoid payment, people do try and get a free replacement two years after a candidate started. The terms are the legal document that protect all and clearly state expectations of us and the client. When you are a decent recruiter you would clearly outline the most important elements of T&C’s early on in the relationship and then you have proved your worth, built relationships with and have mutual respect with your clients and candidates then the T&C’s play very little part in a recruitment partnership.
    Remember the stock on our shelves is people. The stock in a car showroom is vehicles. Would you go to a car dealership and dispute rates, dispute terms, dispute the warranty period and then go back long after the warranty has expired and the car is paid for and tell them you want money back or an alternative car? probably not!!

    Reply
  26. Absolute load of garbage. In any terms and conditions, anywhere in the world, for a product or service being provided it will be filled with ‘trust issue’ clauses. Unfortunately this is the world we live in, where everyone wants to not only save a penny or two but screw others to add a bit to their own wallets and bank balances. I work in recruitment and believe me people do recruit behind our backs after a candidate has attended interview, people do try and delay/avoid payment, people do try and get a free replacement two years after a candidate started. The terms are the legal document that protect all and clearly state expectations of us and the client. When you are a decent recruiter you would clearly outline the most important elements of T&C’s early on in the relationship and then you have proved your worth, built relationships with and have mutual respect with your clients and candidates then the T&C’s play very little part in a recruitment partnership.
    Remember the stock on our shelves is people. The stock in a car showroom is vehicles. Would you go to a car dealership and dispute rates, dispute terms, dispute the warranty period and then go back long after the warranty has expired and the car is paid for and tell them you want money back or an alternative car? probably not!!

    Reply
  27. James Cameron

    If all they are doing is posting a job on a job board why not post it yourself and save yourself some money?……we both know why don’t we? There’s an awful lot more that goes into isnt there…

    Reply
  28. James Cameron

    If all they are doing is posting a job on a job board why not post it yourself and save yourself some money?……we both know why don’t we? There’s an awful lot more that goes into isnt there…

    Reply
  29. Iain Hayes

    This is one of the worst post I have ever read. You even mention how you were an average agency recruiter and all this does is simply back up that fact!
    There are loads of decent agencies out there – yes there are cowboys (like in all industries) but the ones you “partner” with will have a PTR in providing their clients with strong candidate that are, in general, not out their responding to job adverts.
    You talk about T&C’s being the same… ever had a phone contract from two different companies.. read them… similar right?!?!
    I am going to leave it there… but you understand..

    Reply
  30. Iain Hayes

    This is one of the worst post I have ever read. You even mention how you were an average agency recruiter and all this does is simply back up that fact!
    There are loads of decent agencies out there – yes there are cowboys (like in all industries) but the ones you “partner” with will have a PTR in providing their clients with strong candidate that are, in general, not out their responding to job adverts.
    You talk about T&C’s being the same… ever had a phone contract from two different companies.. read them… similar right?!?!
    I am going to leave it there… but you understand..

    Reply
  31. Stan Rolfe

    People, just because I write something doesn’t mean I believe in it. It was designed to stimulate conversation.
    Feel free to check in with companies like IRP and PSG here in Perth who will tell you how hard I work for them to get the result we both want. And yes, I negotiate hard but fair. Having worked in the contractor industry for a few years now, our business is constantly under margin pressure due to commodity fluctuations.
    Whats really interesting about the comments not just here but elsewhere is that people keep talking about how tired they are of such articles, where are the positive articles they say? Well how about stop moaning and start writing and generate some conversation. I know what my next blog will be, but sadly as positive as it maybe it won’t get the same traction because people like to be critical.

    Reply
  32. Stan Rolfe

    People, just because I write something doesn’t mean I believe in it. It was designed to stimulate conversation.
    Feel free to check in with companies like IRP and PSG here in Perth who will tell you how hard I work for them to get the result we both want. And yes, I negotiate hard but fair. Having worked in the contractor industry for a few years now, our business is constantly under margin pressure due to commodity fluctuations.
    Whats really interesting about the comments not just here but elsewhere is that people keep talking about how tired they are of such articles, where are the positive articles they say? Well how about stop moaning and start writing and generate some conversation. I know what my next blog will be, but sadly as positive as it maybe it won’t get the same traction because people like to be critical.

    Reply
  33. Jason Scott

    “People, just because I write something doesn’t mean I believe in it. It was designed to stimulate conversation” What an idiotic comment to pass after so flagrantly stoking a fire. You not only represent yourself in a bad light with ridiculous comments but also your employer, Barminco. I have no doubt Peter Stokes, a long time friend and supporter of the Search and Selection industry, would view this as appalling. I have forwarded this to Peter as I too enjoy stimulating conversation.

    Reply
  34. Jason Scott

    “People, just because I write something doesn’t mean I believe in it. It was designed to stimulate conversation” What an idiotic comment to pass after so flagrantly stoking a fire. You not only represent yourself in a bad light with ridiculous comments but also your employer, Barminco. I have no doubt Peter Stokes, a long time friend and supporter of the Search and Selection industry, would view this as appalling. I have forwarded this to Peter as I too enjoy stimulating conversation.

    Reply
  35. Aussieblogger

    100% agree with Jason Scott. Stan’s feeble attempt to back track and distance himself from his poor initial post but him, his company and internal recruiters in a bad light. Agency recruiters generally get a bad rap, but when internal recruiters think and act like this, is it any wonder that agency / internal recruiter relationship is generally so bad?

    Reply
  36. Aussieblogger

    100% agree with Jason Scott. Stan’s feeble attempt to back track and distance himself from his poor initial post but him, his company and internal recruiters in a bad light. Agency recruiters generally get a bad rap, but when internal recruiters think and act like this, is it any wonder that agency / internal recruiter relationship is generally so bad?

    Reply
  37. John Smith

    Agreed. What an absolute flog Stan is. If I were his manager at Barminco, I’d be questioning why he is spending time on these rubbish ‘blogs’ and not doing the job he is getting paid to do.

    Reply
  38. John Smith

    Agreed. What an absolute flog Stan is. If I were his manager at Barminco, I’d be questioning why he is spending time on these rubbish ‘blogs’ and not doing the job he is getting paid to do.

    Reply
  39. I love the uniformed anger directed at Stan and knowing him personally, I reckon he would be loving it too! Stan has written many blogs and posted on many forums on topics to generate debate – if you take a look they tend to showcase a multitude of different view points rather than just push one particular approach. If you have an issue with what he has written, great; refute and get involved in some constructive criticism – calling someone juvenile names and trying to damage his employment says more about you than anything else.

    Reply
  40. I love the uniformed anger directed at Stan and knowing him personally, I reckon he would be loving it too! Stan has written many blogs and posted on many forums on topics to generate debate – if you take a look they tend to showcase a multitude of different view points rather than just push one particular approach. If you have an issue with what he has written, great; refute and get involved in some constructive criticism – calling someone juvenile names and trying to damage his employment says more about you than anything else.

    Reply
  41. Stan Rolfe

    I do my job very well. Look at the number of staff we turn over in our company. Most are here for at least six months so I am very busy…..because I recruit badly and take who ever is keen to work here.

    Reply
  42. Stan Rolfe

    I do my job very well. Look at the number of staff we turn over in our company. Most are here for at least six months so I am very busy…..because I recruit badly and take who ever is keen to work here.

    Reply
  43. Agency balance

    I have never commented on a blog before so if debate is the objective it has worked. I have worked in recruitment successfully for over 15 years and I am proud of my job and also met some wonderful people along the way. I have seen and experienced why it is classed as one of the most stressful occupations in the world. This blog is a very one sided article which I think you should be ashamed of. Many agency recruiters would love to slam this but won’t because they are worried about re percussions which would
    Be the first lesson here. Many Internal recruiters can’t even bring themselves to say the word recruitment so will spend more time trying to create noise and titles around talent management , data analysis , blogging , using gaming systems to self promote etc. we all are recruiters, not talent acquisition specialists, not thought leaders, not demigods who can assume they have Sussed out the industry whilst not keeping a job for more
    Than 6 months or 2 years at best. Back in the box please and respect your profession and the people that work hard to improve people’s lives on a daily basis. Maybe you should write an article on how many placements come from seek ads and don’t work out from internal recruitment. Feel free to like this anyone.

    Reply
  44. Agency balance

    I have never commented on a blog before so if debate is the objective it has worked. I have worked in recruitment successfully for over 15 years and I am proud of my job and also met some wonderful people along the way. I have seen and experienced why it is classed as one of the most stressful occupations in the world. This blog is a very one sided article which I think you should be ashamed of. Many agency recruiters would love to slam this but won’t because they are worried about re percussions which would
    Be the first lesson here. Many Internal recruiters can’t even bring themselves to say the word recruitment so will spend more time trying to create noise and titles around talent management , data analysis , blogging , using gaming systems to self promote etc. we all are recruiters, not talent acquisition specialists, not thought leaders, not demigods who can assume they have Sussed out the industry whilst not keeping a job for more
    Than 6 months or 2 years at best. Back in the box please and respect your profession and the people that work hard to improve people’s lives on a daily basis. Maybe you should write an article on how many placements come from seek ads and don’t work out from internal recruitment. Feel free to like this anyone.

    Reply
  45. Recruiting can be very challenging for candidates and employers – especially when there is lack of transparency. Recruitment agencies thrive on lack of information, and hence cause a lot of mistrust. Referral recruiting provides the best results – candidates know the company and vice versa. And most companies have lots of candidates in their external referral recruiting network – given that an average employee has around 1500 contacts, a 100-person firm can have 150,000 candidates in its referral network. Our firm, CareerBot (http://careerbot.ai) , provides automatic matchmaking between jobs and referral candidates. Check out our services for jump-starting your referral recruiting.

    Reply
  46. Recruiting can be very challenging for candidates and employers – especially when there is lack of transparency. Recruitment agencies thrive on lack of information, and hence cause a lot of mistrust. Referral recruiting provides the best results – candidates know the company and vice versa. And most companies have lots of candidates in their external referral recruiting network – given that an average employee has around 1500 contacts, a 100-person firm can have 150,000 candidates in its referral network. Our firm, CareerBot (http://careerbot.ai) , provides automatic matchmaking between jobs and referral candidates. Check out our services for jump-starting your referral recruiting.

    Reply
  47. William

    Here in the US, I’d happily let an agency take 20%. In the 90’s their take was typically around 33%, now it’s 39-40%. They provide as little service as possible and rely on their contract terms to do their work for them. They contact ME to see what a former cleint is up to when that kind of thing is what they get 40% of my pay for.

    Reply

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